Home > LGBT - Politics > Pray away the gay, and shoot down the scientist!

Pray away the gay, and shoot down the scientist!


This is a note-worthy discussion that occurred on the wall of our Lebanese LGBT Media Monitor. Below we will only quote comments by Mr. Hasan Hijazi and four Admins from the Monitor. To check the original post and all of the comments Click Here.

The discussion was started by Mr. Hijazi as a comment on an ABC video that was posted on our wall:

Interesting video I found: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA0pr46buQ8

www.youtube.com

A religious counselor pressures a gay teen to change his sexual orientation. 2/10/2012

Like ·  ·  · February 13 at 2:38am
    • Hasan Hijazi

      I’m not really sure about praying the gay away. It seems possible if done correctly and with adamance, but that’s just my own conjecture.On the other hand, “Reparative Therapy”, the secular therapy for homosexuality, seems to be a better candidate for the conversion process.One very important ingredient is the homosexual’s willingness to become straight. If the homosexual doesn’t wish to change, all attempts to convert him/her will fail miserably.
    • Lebanese LGBT Media Monitor Admin Red:
      Hasan you are mistaken. Reparative or conversion therapies have been found medically to be very dangerous and associated with mental illness and depression, that is why they are illegal and considered malpractice.

    • Lebanese LGBT Media Monitor Admin Red:
      No one can change their orientation from gay to straight but you can definitely choose to have sex with a man or woman, wether you will ejnoy it or not, it feels right or not, this is a different question.

    • Hasan Hijazi

      I feel as though you’re just repeating the opinion of the APA, which mind you is a politically correct organization that puts politics ahead of science.The way I see it, homosexuals are being duped into believing many unusual and unscientific allegations. Unfortunately, they are pawns that are being swayed by deceptive gay activism.Furthermore, one conclusion I reached is that gay activists don’t care at all about homosexuals. Instead, gay activists lie and deceive for the purpose of “homosexual recruitment”.
      Why?Because the more people accept their homosexuality, the more normal and less insecure the gay activists will feel. This is pure interpretation on my part, though. It’s merely a theory, but it’s backed by the fact that the “born gay” hypothesis turned out to be a myth, and the fact that many people have been able to get rid of their homosexual tendencies either spontaneously, or through therapy.

    • Lebanese LGBT Media Monitor Admin Red:
      The APA is an authority in the field of psychiatry worldwide and for someone to claim that its medical guidelines are “politically” influenced is a simply naïve. I respect your thoughts and opinions Hasan but I believe they are not medically based. I urge you to do a better research and diversify the sources from where you are reading. The APA’s guidelines are not even controversial or argued anymore.

    • Hasan Hijazi

      Admin red and ***, I appreciate the tag team dynamic you have going on, but the both of you are misinformed:1- Former APA president, Robert Perloff:”The APA is too goddamn politically correct…and too goddamn obeisant to special interests”2- Barbara Gittings, Pro-gay Activist (On the removal of homosexuality from the DSM in 1973):

      “It was never a medical decision—and that’s why I think the action came so fast…It was a political move.” “That’s how far we’ve come in ten years. Now we even have the American Psychiatric Association running scared”

      3- Pro-gay journalist Andrew Sullivan wrote that in December of 1973 the APA “…under intense political pressure…removed homosexuality from its official list of psychiatric disorders…”

      In 1973, the APA removed homosexuality from the DSM after doing a vote. Ask yourself this. Since when do we “vote” on medical issues?

      Had you understood APA history like I do, you wouldn’t have had the audacity to call me naïve.

      And at this point, I expect a reasoned rebuttal from either one of you. Preferably not Christopher, though. Considering his terrible English.

    • Lebanese LGBT Media Monitor Admin Blue:
      I see an interesting discussion going on here
      let’s keep it full of love and acceptance to everybody as it has been till now 🙂
      Thank you all for your input. That’s the way we can communicate with each other and learn more about how everyone looks at an issue from his own perspective, which is completely correct
      We can all have our points of views but I’m not gonna give an additional one now.
      Hasan seems to have some information and some personal interpretation, which is interesting
      However I would like to ask Hasan to show us some evidence based medicine about what he considers to be a disease!
      When we talk science and medicine these days, we should talk about evidence based practice, not politics neither personal opinions which have their places!
      Tofy, Hasan’s thoughts are not a novelty. Let’s face it, this is the way a lot of people think and I would like to thank Hasan for expressing himself
      Respectful discussions are an asset and are most welcome 🙂
    • Lebanese LGBT Media Monitor Admin Red:
      Thank you Hasan for your insight. You appear to have some historic knowledge about the “politics” of the APA. Regardless of what the former APA president, a gay-activist and a gay-journalist have said and in what context they said it, the facts remain the same: There has no solid evidence to prove that homosexuality is a disease over more than twee decades of solid research. A simple search on PubMed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed would clearly show you all these studies. I join Admin Blue in asking for a scientific evidence or papers that would support your claim that homosexuality is a disease and that it can be cured. Let us put the APA aside in case its authenticity you question, Most of the Medical associations have publicly stated that homosexuality is not a disease, here are few: American Academy of Pediatrics | American Counseling Association | American Medical Association | American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists | American Psychological Association | National Association of Social Workers I World Health Organization among others. The issue is not even debatable in the medical field.

      www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

      PubMed comprises more than 21 million citations for biomedical literature from MEDLINE, life science journals, and online books. Citations may include links to full-text content from PubMed Central and publisher web sites.
    • Hasan Hijazi
      The ultimate irony and perplexity of gay activism is that gay activists wouldn’t be here, fighting for gay rights, had they not had both a mother and a father. And that’s why I am against homosexuality. It really can’t get any more basic than this.

      Homosexuality is simply a flawed and inferior form of sexual orientation. It is a disorder because someone with the capacity to create new life is throwing it all away for the sake of pleasing his/her same-sex libidinal desires.Had The APA, and all other major mental health organizations, not been affected by political correctness and gay activism, it’s very likely that they’d share my point of view.
      Of course, this is my humble opinion. Not more.@Tofy Adzara:
      ” However, even if you think (through your own reasoning) that homosexuality is a medical disorder, then why would you automatically assume that it is a curable one?”That’s a relevant counter-argument to put forth. Homosexuality, after all, could be a medical disorder but *incurable* as well.
      I don’t claim to know all the answers, but I’ll tell you this. That perspective doesn’t really seem to fit into the puzzle. For starters, there are many accounts of people who have changed their orientation, either spontaneously or through therapy, and ultimately ended up in a happy heterosexual marriage.

      http://www.mygenes.co.nz/PDFs/Ch12.pdf

      And secondly, the idea of homosexuality being fixed is merely a political move put forth by gay activists. Thankfully, many pro-gays have admitted to this:

      Take pro-gay activist Lillian Faderman for example. In the September 5, 1995 edition of the Advocate she stated the following: “We continue to demand rights, ignoring the fact that human sexuality is fluid and flexible, acting as though we are all stuck in our category forever. The narrow categories of identity politics are obviously deceptive.”

      John DeCecco, the editor of the Journal of Homosexuality, agrees: “The whole born gay and immutable characteristic idea is just gay and lesbian politics and aimed at achieving gay rights.”

      The word “politics” here is key.
      I’d really appreciate it if Admin red, Admin Blue, Tofy and others really took this into account.

      @Admin red

      Most mainstream scientific and medical orgs (like the American Association of Pediatrics, American Medical Assn, as just two examples) when asked about issues dealing with homosexuality, simply models their policies, statements, and decisions from what the APA puts forth.

    • Lebanese LGBT Media Monitor Admin Purple:
      Hi Hasan, I’ve been reading your comments and I am glad that you and everyone else is debating the issue in a respectful manner. That said, I’d like to address some of the things you mentioned:”Homosexuality is simply a flawed and inferior form of sexual orientation. It is a disorder because someone with the capacity to create new life is throwing it all away for the sake of pleasing his/her same-sex libidinal desires.”Would you consider heterosexuals who are infertile as inferior? After all, they are incapable of conceiving new life and would have to turn to things like IVF, surrogacy, artificial insemination, adoption, etc. to able to have children (many of those are similar to what gay couple would use).What about fertile heterosexuals who are fertile but do not want to conceive? They are throwing away their “actual” capacity to create new life for the sake of pleasing their opposite sex libidinal desires.

      I’m interested in hearing your opinion as well as those from other members of the monitor.

    • Lebanese LGBT Media Monitor Admin Orange:
      Hi Hasan, I like how you’re instructed about all of these movements and I had a few comments to adress to you on some of your thoughts as well as your info.1- I see you keep on accusing the APA of being “political” and you’re bringing up these counter examples of people who changed their orientation and now are married and have kids: did it ever occur to you that these movements are the ones who are even more politicized? Did you ever hear of the ex-gay movement, a movement that was launched in the US by extremist Christians. It’s movements like these that were behind the anti-gay bill at Uganda, the one calling for condemning homosexuals with the death penalty.2- Let’s get out of politics and the APA and decisions made by “medical associations” : we all know that even if we got all the medical associations in the world, when someone sticks to an idea he/she won’t let it go…
      But let’s talk from a discrimination point of view: who are homosexuals? They are people who have same sex relationships, relationships that are different from what the norm imposes in some countries.
      Now, who do homosexuals harm by having homosexual relationships or even practicing homosexuality? No one!
      Why should they be treated any differently than anyone else then?
      Now that’s an issue I’ve seen most activists fight for: equality…
      No one really cares on the “origin” of homosexuality and if it’s genetic or not. Believe me, activists (especially in Lebanon) are not waiting for “people to accept their homosexuality” to feel “normal”. They’re fine the way they are. But they would want anyone who is uncomfortable with his/her sexuality to see why and to see how to work on it. If it’s because of society that you’re uncomfortable, then you should learn that you can’t live how society wants you to live. If it’s because of personal believes then stop practicing homosexuality and find a way for you to be happy.
    • Lebanese LGBT Media Monitor Admin Orange:
      Now on another note (getting back to the video): I felt that there was a certain frame imposed on having the “Muslim” family be the ones who don’t accept homosexuality, but have the christian one defending it…
      Makes me wonder how “political” was that statement by itself 🙂

    • Lebanese LGBT Media Monitor Admin Red:
      Hasan Hijazi you wrote: “And secondly, the idea of homosexuality being fixed is merely a political move put forth by gay activists. “ Actually the idea of homosexuality being “transient” or “trend” is an ancient misconception just like the old thought that earth is flat. That ancient idea has been refuted by medicine long time ago. The idea of homosexuality being transient is merely a political move put forth by activists (wether straight, closeted gay or perceived “ex-gay”) that fail to recognize homosexuals as equal humans in rights and responsibilities.

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